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Jawwad Farid and risky business in the IT sector

Posted on February 21, 2012 // Leave a Comment

I would rather have one Jawwad than ten Mohammad Asifs, what about you? PHOTO: CIO PAKISTAN

Whenever we dicuss the IT sector in Pakistan, the conversation is usually about what we lack and not what we have. Then we compare it to India with all its government subsidies, state of the art infrastructure and lament all the catching up we have to do.

While there is nothing wrong with making that comparison because competition is healthy, we need to realize that Pakistanis have been blazing trails in the IT industry for some years. Even with all the hurdles we have in our way, the sector has been providing niche services and is often unnoticed. There is a lot more happening than companies making apps by the dozen for iPhones and BlackBerries.

This brings us to Jawwad Farid and his company fourquants.com, which provides enterprise solutions for companies facing difficulties in financial models and risk-taking by producing tutorials. They have gone one step further and are now providing their training via iPhone, iPad and  Android apps.

Here’s what Farid had to say about the new frontier:

1. Tell us about yourself and how you set out in the IT industry here in Pakistan?

Due to a series of fortunate accidents I landed at BCCI FAST ICS (now NUCES) in December 1989. It took me two years to figure out that I really liked computer science. By the time I was ready to sit down and learn I had graduated.

I initially picked roles that allowed me to spend plenty of quality time in front of compilers since I considered myself geek material, but then understood that the real money was in selling software  - not building it.

I left Pakistan to learn more about how the world operates and came back in 2003 after being in London, New York, Orange County and Northern Virginia.

2. Tell us what your product is?

Our most recent product is a training portal dedicated to teaching computational finance, treasury and risk courses online.

This is a space we discovered while working with the banking industry in Pakistan, Middle East and in the far East. We run apartially free portal as well as a premier enterprise edition. Under the FourQuants.com brand we have an iPhone, iPad and Android application which was developed by the award winning Pepper.pk design studio in Lahore (a P@SHA connection).

While there is a lot of noise around risk, treasury and compliance, the truth is that there are very few practical resources you could go to, to figure out how this stuff actually works. It doesn’t matter if you are a treasurer, an ALCO committee board member, a CxO or a management trainee. At some level they all have (different) questions that need to be answered. We provide these answers in such a fashion that they can put them to work at work, almost immediately. We are practical not academic;  hands on not bookish.

3. Your charges at $70 per course and more than $300 per quarter seem to indicate you are catering to a high-end market; how did you manage to position yourself in this sector?

Luck, parental guidance and some very good friends!

My parents and elders played a big role in helping me make a few right choices earlier on that made it possible for me to specialise at a very early age, which has certainly helped.  But I think it is important to do a good job of documenting and understanding what the customer needs and then help address that need in a  reasonable fashion. I think if we had done this in Fiji or Timbuktu, we would have had a similar reaction. Good products ultimately succeed because they fulfill a need. The challenge is in ensuring that your target segment is aware that you have the solution for their problems. Once you figure out what the underlying pain is, fix it and let your customers know you are almost there.

4. Aside from inefficient policies by the government, what hurdles did you encounter during your initial startup?

Despite all the bad press we get, it was far easier to start and grow a business here in Pakistan than it was in New York and Southern California (been there, done that). I was very lucky that individuals that I hardly knew stepped up and helped us find opportunities that we weren’t aware of.

For every year we have worked, I can name at least three people who selflessly opened doors for us that we couldn’t have managed on our own. Compared to the dip that we witnessed in the US at the turn of the century, the recession here was much milder. And while failing is always difficult and painful for a startup, failing in Karachi was like a light bruise versus multiple compound fractures in Santa Ana.

5. What advice would you like to give to young people starting out in the IT industry? Is there a chance for them to make their own startups?

Absolutely! Think smart, work hard and stay with it. It helps if you start early, live with five to six hours of sleep for 20 years, make the most of your talent and your time. Your big advantage is that building a technology product in Pakistan is getting easier and easier. Our last product launch took 45 days with three people, this December.  My first technology product in 1995 took ten computer scientists a full year to build and then promptly went splat.

There is of course, the downside. You will most certainly fail – just like the rest of us. But if you are prepared for it and handle it smartly (I didn’t), it’s not that bad. It gets easier with practice. Get over your fear, fasten that seat belt and give destiny a spin.

Remember that there are no shortcuts and that you cannot do it alone. All great successes are because of a great team. Value your partners and your team members. Don’t take them for granted.

6. If you were given the chance to become an IT minister for a week, what would you do to make things better?

Frankly speaking, I would shut down the IT ministry and give the entire IT budget to P@SHA. I am biased especially since I have served as a P@SHA treasurer in the past and I have seen myself that we do more with one percent of their budget and one person. If we had ten percent of what the government spends on the IT ministry, we could do so much more.

All this and I had never even heard of this company . People like Jawwad keep tinkering away, breaking boundaries and contributing more. This is the Pakistan we should be speaking of; these are the Pakistanis that will take us forward, to stand in the world as we should.

I would rather have one Jawwad than ten Mohammad Asifs, what about you?

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As published in Express tribune blogs on 21/2/2012

Filed Under: Published Articles // Tagged: , , , ,

KLF roundup

Posted on February 18, 2012 // Leave a Comment

The Karachi literature festival has been held in this city for the last three years. It has now become a galvanizing point for a collection of writers showcasing their latest books and literature enthusiasts flocking to learn and bask in the glory of these wordsmiths. This year the event was held on the 11th and 12th of February in a shortened format in comparison to last year, perhaps to account for the situation around it. However, unlike last year when the invited Indian authors could not make it due to visa issues, this year they were present in their finery with Shobha De and Vikram Seth leading the pack. There were three other very prominent English authors in William Darymple, Hanif Kureishi and Anatol Lieven. We have the UK high commission to thank for organizing and bringing them here. Local talent was aptly represented by Mohammad Hanif and Kamila Shamsie as well as ‘Sufisal’, known to ordinary folk as rock band Junoon’s Salman Ahmed.

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Shobha De
Shobha De
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Perhaps next year’s KLF can be held at the expo center so that more people in the city can enjoy the event rather than the privileged few who don’t have to worry about trivial things like “public transport”

I heard about this event only two days prior to it happening and got there at about 11 am the first day to attend Shobha De’s session. As per Karachi custom the opening ceremony had overshot its mark and the ballroom at the Carlton Hotel gradually filled up by about 11:30am to welcome our visitor from India. A firecracker would be a more suitable description. For this 64-year old mother of six and author of fearsome repute in her unabashed portrayal of all subjects taboo positively sizzled on stage. Yet Shobha De seemed very much like she was a part of Karachi as she spoke of the mehndi-sangeet event she had attended last night and took us on the journey that was her life, a restless spirit as is found in most people who call this city home. She also surprised me when she answered my question about writer’s block with sheer discipline as she revealed she wrote 2500 words every single day. “You don’t have to go to a mountain and wait for lightning to strike you,” she said. “You have no excuse but to perform and you must do it daily.”

Shobha De revealed she wrote 2500 words every single day. “You don’t have to go to a mountain and wait for lightning to strike you,” she said
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Ali Akbar Husain, William Dalrymple and Raza RumiAli Akbar Husain, William Dalrymple and Raza Rumi
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Then there was mingling with the different people attending this event as we waited for Ali Akbar Hossain’s book launch with William Darymple and our own Raza Rumi as moderator to begin. Ali Akbar’s book is both an ode and a study of the Deccan courts. It is titled ‘Scent in an Islamic Garden’, referring to the pleasure gardens that were filled with flowers and used for entertainment and amorous purposes. Each scent bestowing its experience upon the people strolling and perhaps retiring in some of its more shaded corners for more intimacy. As he read out some excerpts from the book, I couldn’t help but be transported back in time to an era where symbology and intricacy meant more than the physical self. William Dalrymple of course added to the delight of the audience as he cajoled Akbar again and again to read out some of the more “erotic” passages from the book. He also read out a passage from his own ‘White Mughals’ which is about an affair between and English diplomat and a local princess through the eyes of a historian, a book which is now on my must-read list.

William Dalrymple cajoled Akbar to read out some of the more “erotic” passages from his book
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William DalrympleWilliam Dalrymple
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This ended well into the lunchtime recess and the next session I attended was another Book Launch and Conversation with Michel Boivin (‘Artefacts of God’) and Jurgen Frembgen (‘Nocturnal Music’). Frembgen in this session illustrated to us his various experiences with the matters of the soul at various Sufi shrines around Pakistan and the complexities of chewing a paan wrapped in silver foil at a proper poetic mehfil. Quite an eye-opener for anyone interested remotely in Sufism, as here was a man grown up in the West, speaking of the delights of our culture with an almost childlike awe, the same culture many of us choose to dump in the corner in favor of more wannabe lifestyles.

My last experience at KLF was on the late hours of the second day, as me and the wife again made the long trip to attend Sharmeen Obaid Chinoy’s session in the theatre. Chinoy is both eloquent and inspiring yet rooted to the ground that is her nation. She proves this by making films that make a difference and picking subjects that no one else wants to talk about. She has also been nominated for an Oscar now, and there were quite a few ovations as she showed us six clips from her various documentaries, including the Oscar-nominated ‘Saving Face’.

Naturally, while such brilliant memories were created at KLF, there were some rather distasteful ones as well. The following are a few hints about improvements that could be made to next year’s program.

The attendees seemed the outcome of a bus touring the posher parts of this great metropolis, picking up socialites and aunties from outside overpriced lawn exhibitions
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Audience at the Karachi Literature FestivalAudience at the Karachi Literature Festival
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After visiting KLF for two years now, one would think that by this year the organizers would have realized the futility of the location they had chosen. Literature is not only to be enjoyed by a “certain class” of people and so it would be really appreciated if the next KLF could be held in the center of Karachi at perhaps the expo center so that more people in the city can enjoy the event rather than the privileged few who don’t have to worry about trivial things like “public transport”.

It would also benefit the event greatly if things started on time.

The volunteers who worked tirelessly to set up the festival had little or no clue about the subject matter of the sessions. I was witness to several gaffes, particularly in Ali Akbar Hossain’s session. It creates a bad taste when the announcer doesn’t know what he is speaking about.

The attendees at KLF this year seemed the outcome of a bus touring the posher parts of this great metropolis, picking up socialites and aunties from outside overpriced lawn exhibitions. The gaps in the crowd were of course filled by twitterati of all sizes and shapes. People who, let’s just say, know a litter less about books and writing and more about posing for the right picture. Last year we had a smattering of delightful poets and people from the Urdu side of our literatary divide. This year they seemed to have given the event a miss, maybe because the PR for this event didn’t seem to go too far past the Clifton Bridge.

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A version of this was published in ” The Friday times”
Filed Under: Published Articles // Tagged: , ,

Karachi literature festival 2012

Posted on February 8, 2012 // Leave a Comment
Three years old, the Karachi literary festival at least by its lineup seems to have come of age finally. I was there last year and although there was much local talent present the international big name flair seemed to have given the festival a miss as many invited Indian authors could not get visas on time.This does not by any means indicate that international authors “have to be there” at the festival to make it a success. It was a success last time as well but unfortunately to make it register on an international level in mainstream and social media the presence of international stars makes all the difference.

Why do I mention social media here? Well its because increasingly literature festivals have become interactive  forums between authors and their readers and nothing emulates interaction more than social media. Naturally people who attend this time are far far more media savvy than last time and some of them have followings of 10,000 or more on social media platforms thus their voices and discussion will resonate at this forum.

A cursory look at the lineup shows us  Vikram Seth, Hanif Kureishi, Shobha De, William Dalrymple, Anatol Lieven among the people visiting from other shores and Mohammed Hanif, Kamila Shamsie, H.M. Naqvi and Maniza Naqvi amongst the local talent on showcase. Quite a mouth watering lineup for any reader I might add! However if you havent read the books of any of the visiting authors let me clue you in on some of their prowess.

William Dalrymple is the author of seven acclaimed works of history and travel, including City of Djinns, which won the Young British Writer of the Year Prize and the Thomas Cook Travel Book Award; the best-selling From the Holy Mountain; The Age of Kali, which won the French Prix D’Astrolable; White Mughals, which won Britain’s most prestigious history prize, the Wolfson, and The Last Mughal, which won the Duff Cooper Memorial Prize and The Crossword Prize for Non Fiction. He divides his time between New Delhi and London and is a contributor to The New York Review of Books, The New Yorker, The New Statesman and The Guardian.

His sessions at the KLF [all on Day ONE]
1.  Keynote Speaker at the inauguration  (what will kick-start it all)

Time: 10:00 am to 11:00 am

Venue: Main Garden (open space)

2.  INDUS JOURNEYS: In Conversation with William Dalrymple

Moderator: Kamila Shamsie
Time: 3:00p.m. to 4:00 p.m.
Venue: Main Garden

3.  Afghanistan & Pakistan: Conflict, Extremism & the Taliban

 Ahmed Rashid, William Dalrymple, Mushahid Hussain Sayed, Navid Kermani

Moderator: Rasul Bakhsh Rais

Time: 5:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m.

Venue: Ballroom

Hanif Kureishi is the author of numerous novels, short story collections, screenplays and plays. In 1984 he wrote My Beautiful Laundrette, which received an Oscar nomination for Best Screenplay. His second film, Sammy and Rosie Get Laid, was followed by London Kills Me, which he also directed. The Buddha of Suburbia won the Whitbread Prize for Best First Novel in 1990 and was made into a four-part drama series by the BBC. Intimacy, his third novel, was published in 1998, and was adapted for film in 2001. His work has been translated into 36 languages. He has been awarded the Chevalier de l’Ordre des Arts des Lettres and a CBE for services to literature. In 2008 The Times listed him as one of ‘The 50 Greatest British Writers since 1945′ and in 2010 he was awarded the PEN/PINTER prize. Hanif Kureishi lives in London with his wife and children.

His sessions at the KLF
DAY ONE
1. In Conversation with Hanif Kureishi

Moderator: Muneeza Shamsie

Time: 12:00 noon to 1:00 pm
Venue: Main Garden

DAY TWO

1.  LITERARY CRITICISM

Muneeza Shamsie, Hanif Kureishi, Aamer Hussein, Alok Bhalla, Stefan Weidner

Moderator: Maniza Naqvi

Time: 10:00 to 11:00 a.m.

Venue: Maharaja

2.  Reading by Hanif Kureishi (extremely important)

Time: 7:00 p.m. – 7:30 p.m.

Venue: Beach View Garden

Anatol Lieven is a professor in the War Studies Department at King’s College London., and a senior fellow of the New America Foundation in Washington DC. His areas of expertise include US strategy and political culture; Islamist terrorism and insurgency; contemporary warfare; the countries of the former Soviet Union; and the Greater Middle East, especially Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran.  His latest book, Pakistan: A Hard Country was published in 2011-2012 by Penguin in the UK, Public Affairs in the USA and Oxford University Press in Pakistan. It is based on his time as a journalist in Pakistan in the late 1980s and extensive research on the ground in recent years.

His sessions at the KLF:

DAY ONE

1.  In conversation with Anatol Lieven

Moderator: Ayesha Siddiqa

Time: 2:00 p.m. – 3:00 p.m.

Venue: Ballroom

2.  Today’s Pakistan: An economic and political perspective

Asad Sayeed, Ishrat Husain, Anatol Lieven, Maleeha Lodhi

Moderator: Ghazi Salahuddin

Venue: Maharaja

Time: 4:00p.m. – 5:00 p.m.

DAY TWO

3. Eyewitnesses and Observers: Writing about Pakistan from a Foreign Perspective

Manu Joseph, Declan Walsh, Anatol Lieven, John Krich, Kishore Bhimani , Hartosh Bal Singh, Alok Bhalla, Navid Kermani, Daniel Lak

Moderator: Raza Rumi

Venue: Maharaja

Time: 3:00 p.m. – 4:00 p.m.

Off course there are many more offerings at this grand buffet of literature, and some of the best will be found in the halls where budding wordsmiths and bloggers will be gathered around writers of such repute like moths to a flame.  The above were just my version of what constitutes the “must attend” parts!
By chance if you see someone soaking up the atmosphere hunched over a smart phone, that will probably be me :) See you there!!
Filed Under: Current Affairs, Day To Day, F.K's Life, Karachi // Tagged: , , , , ,

The novelist – chapter 6

Posted on February 3, 2012 // Leave a Comment

Darika shuffled from the main door of her house to the porch end, her hands wrinkled with time resting upon the wood of the railing as she looked at the sky darkening and the sea tides rising like coiled serpents biting at the shoreline. She spoke in a whisper to the waves as if she was addressing a naughty child.

“you remember what your father said to you now keshini its going to be cold out there tonight, best you take a shawl hmmm”

She laughed a knowing chuckle as if she could hear her daughter give her a smart assed reply and reached behind the wooden post holding the porch awning up to switch on a light. It pleased her that she would soon have some company, it’s a bit difficult to be alone she thought with the waves pounding on your nerves all the time.  She had not switched this light on since her family disappeared at sea but somehow she felt like doing it now. She had never believed in Keshinis death anyways as they never found her body but Bimal had been attested to and still somehow she felt he was close now. She could almost hear him laugh at his own jokes as they sat together in their room at one of the cities fine hotels, raindrops pelting on the windows. He had always loved storms.

She suddenly felt movement to the left of her peripheral vision and drew the small stout stick she kept leaning against the porch railing to her. Realizing whom it was she let her hand relax around the stick and push it back into place as she moved to greet her new house guests.

“ Didn’t take you long at all eh, cant say I blame you the cities are awful”

Zarmina looked at the small figure standing at the porch as she walked by her husbands side to the front porch of the house from behind it, noticing the porch light being turned on as her husband had said, wondering when the hag had mentioned this to them.

“Heeloooooo look whose here” Jalal half yelled as they dragged their suitcases up to the house porch.

“Well inside with you two” Darika jerked her head at them as she looked up at the sky with something resembling a silent conversation

“Its about to get very stormy”

Once inside Zarmina started unpacking as they had pulled their suitcases up to the large airy room upstairs with windows overlooking the waves. She hung up their clothes and kept the toiletries on the simple dresser mirror in the room. The first thing she had done was draw the drapes across the windows when they walked in though, as the sea tossing and turning in the wind made her stomach churn. Jalal was testing the bed.

“man this mattress aint bad at all” chuckled Jalal as he punched it to test its firmness.

“Easy he man this is a wood house, remember? She can probably hear everything”

“ Aww cmon zari shes been living alone so long she probably needs to hear something other than the sea ya know” jalal stood up and walked to the door

“Where you going?” She looked at him curiously

“Just down to check out the beach man,, you finish here and join me, I love storms”

“ Ok cool it wont take longer than five minutes”

As he moved out of the room and down the stairs zarminas ears strained to hear anything else, the old lady made her feel uncomfortable and she still couldn’t put her finger on quite what is was about her. Upon hearing nothing she pulled at the drapes just a bit and took a glance down ignoring the huge black yawning mass before her as she saw the porch and blinked, watching Jalal walk out and sit down next to darika on the bench there.

She watched them silently as they spoke, saw her husband nodding his head in agreement to something and then he got up and walked to the beach his hands held to the sides palms up, as if calling to the storm. He always did foolish things like that, things that would make her scared of maybe lightning striking him or perhaps him just catching a cold. She knew inside it had more to do with the fear of losing him then anything else. He meant everything to her and she knew most of her pragmatic existence before him came from growing up in an orphanage just knowing that she had been left at its doorstep and since then had to be as practical as possible to settle into her life, settle with the circumstances, that’s what she did she settled. Jalal never settled he lived, and he lived life to the fullest in every drop of the storm now cascading down and hitting him in his impulsive ways, in his roaring laughter he just lived.

She ran down the steps two at a time and burst through the front door with a towel she had hastily grabbed screaming

“Jalal its cold please come in you are gonna get sick”

“oh hush child let him be he is at one with the elements cant you see”

She turned around to the direction of this sound of admonishment

“excuse me?”

Darika chuckled and patted her on the cheek, Zarmina thought she had made it to her side a little too quickly for her age

“You are a mannered one aren’t you, but he is like the wind. Have you ever seen anything check the wind”

“ Look Darika I know Jalal likes this place and I’m dealing with you and this for him but that doesn’t mean”

“Doesn’t mean what”? Muttered Darika her eyes looking into those of the younger woman growing hard by the second

“It doesn’t mean that I am going to tolerate any interference in my life” burst out zarmina staring into the old hags expression. She stomped off to the edge of the porch and called out once again to her husband.

“Ok ok I’m coming zari jeez”

He ran back to her soaked to the skin as he grabbed the towel from her hand and shook his hair like a dog throwing droplets of water everywhere.

“Lets go back in, we need to talk please” Zariminas voice was colder than the rain

coming down on the beach in front of them

“Sure man” Jalal smiled at the old ladyy now sitting weaving something as he followed his wife into their new residence and up the stairs.

 

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Filed Under: Fiction // Tagged: , , ,

Moral policing gets show axed

Posted on February 1, 2012 // Leave a Comment

On January 17, 2012, a morning show was broadcast on Pakistani news network Samaa TV where its female host, Maya Khan, and a group of middle aged women were seen scouring the parks of Karachi. Their sole objective was to hold accountable couples visiting the parks in order to be on a date together without their guardians’ knowledge.

During this show the group was seen chasing the couples around the park, forcing many of them to flee, cornering one and then recording them without their consent. As they repeatedly asked for the camera to be switched off, they were told it was, but the Samaa Team continued to film discreetly with sound.

During this episode couples were also asked to prove they were married to one another and produce their marriage certificates for the host Maya Khan.

Screenshot from Youtube Video. Click on image to watch.Screenshot from Youtube Video. Click on image to watch.

This episode prompted strong protests from social media users in Pakistan, and many reacted like Mehreen Kasana, who said:

See, girls fall in love pretty much every single day of the week and so do boys. Sometimes they make the right decision, sometimes they make mistakes. It’s called being human. But trust me, they don’t need a team of middle aged women hounding them down public places to enlighten them about their decisions. And trust me, their mothers will handle whatever happens. No one asked you or anyone else to take the responsibility of scrutinizing them.

The uproar following the airing of this episode was by this time apparent all over Twitter and Facebook in Pakistan. Bina Shah inher piece for the Tribune remarked:

Time and again the ethics of our media have been called into question, as channels embrace sensationalism in order to achieve the highest ratings. The television channel in question will find themselves open to legal action by victims of their harassment who are being portrayed on television without their consent. Airing this segment also appeals to the worst instincts in our hypocritical society by passing moral judgment in the name of family values upon two innocent people, which makes for some of the most irresponsible broadcast journalism found in Pakistan today.

A loosely knit group of civic society activists at this juncture uploaded and started an online petition against this show called ‘STOP “Subah Saverey Maya kay Sath” vigilantism like Lal Masjid‘. Dozens of people also complained to PEMRA (Pakistan’s electronic media regulatory authority) via this online feedback form.

On January 22, lawyer Osama Siddique drafted a brief letter expressing outrage at the highly intrusive, invasive and potentially irresponsible behavior on the part of the host. This letter and a followup letter were sent by a group of citizens to Zafar Siddiqi (President CNBC Pakistan, with which Samaa TV is affiliated).

Beena Sarwar, a civil society activist deeply involved in this protest remarked on her post ‘No to vigil aunties‘:

The first time I saw a link to this show was on Jan 22, shared on a Facebook group, on Jan 21, 2012. I, and many others, began sharing the Youtube links on Facebook and Twitter. As it spread, the outrage grew.

People were shocked at the level of intrusion and vigilantism on display. From India, came comments on twitter about the Saffron vigilante brigade that has been known to drag couples into temples and force them into instant marriage. Which reminded me that the mentality we are protesting is not limited to Pakistan.

Graphic courtesy Teeth MaestroGraphic courtesy Teeth Maestro

By 23 January the online petition mentioned earlier had 4,800 signatures on it, and several articles were being written on what was wrong with this kind of broadcast journalism; this combined pressure resulted in the removal of the Maya Khan Facebook page and subsequently the taking down of YouTube links to this show.

In her show on the 23 January, Maya Khan apologized for this episode and mentioned time and again that this was not meant to hurt people. However by this time civil society activists were asking for a public and unconditional apology and the removal of this show from the airwaves. Efforts had also started to contact the sponsors of this network and more specifically this show.

 

Samaa TV responded to the letter sent to them by asking Maya Khan for an unconditional apology, which she refused, upon which on January 28, Zafar Siddiqi wrote back to inform that Maya Khan and her team have been terminated and her show will not longer air from the 30 January.

So today is the first day the show is off air. This is a watershed moment in Pakistan’s broadcast media history and social media as it comes to the realization that although it is allowed to push the limits set upon it, there are limits and they must be observed. In any case it is a good precedent for civil society to gear up and enforce rights like privacy and freewill to interact without public harassment in Pakistan.

__________________

Published on 30 Jan 2012 by Global voices

Filed Under: Published Articles // Tagged: , , ,

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